(Photo Credit to Blair Thompson and provided by altbr.org)
Your Brand to Branding
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Doug Gay: So what’s all this hype about having a great brand? Well, if you see the golden arches from the highway and your brain immediately says, “Oh, snap. I’m hungry.” Then right there, you just got branded fool! Branded.
Jenn Ocken: I love you.
Doug Gay: Oh, I love you too.
Brand is a powerful tool when used correctly and there’s thousands of hours of video and probably over a million words written about branding or how you use your brand effectively.
Jenn Ocken: And right there, as a creative, our brain starts to implode. Yeah, you’re right, creative. You might even have the ability to build yourself a logo, but that’s only one part and for me, it’s not even the beginning for building an effective, responsible brand that could evolve and grow with you and your craft. I had to make sound kind of poo poo because that is just so technical and that’s what branding is.
Doug Gay: Absolutely. Yeah. This is a massive topic, isn’t it?
Jenn Ocken: Yeah. Massively important, too.
Doug Gay: Massively important. And we won’t be able to fit all things brand into this podcast, so today we’re just gonna get you started. And, as Jenn loves to say, set you up for success.
Jenn Ocken: Yeah, you right.
So, creatives, you are going to want to stay with us here at the end, or close to the end, we have this really awesome special guest who’s gonna help us round out this conversation about branding and give you some sweet insights about maybe being a little bit more corporate creative and playing in that field. But this guy is also a creative just like you and me, pursuing a creative project outside of his nine to five grind. So make sure you stay tuned and let’s get started.
Hey, so Doug, branding, what do you have to say about it?
Doug Gay: To me, branding is layered, right? So you’ve got … To me, our last episode was called defining your craft, right?
Jenn Ocken: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Doug Gay: Part of your brand is the definition of your craft.
Jenn Ocken: Absolutely.
Doug Gay: But you also have to have that stamp, that boom, you know? Not everybody can have McDonald’s arches, in terms of the hugeness of it, but everybody can have that thing. It might not even be that immediately recognizable thing to people, at first, but it could be something that engages somebody very quickly, which is the visual brand, right?
Jenn Ocken: Right. Right. And using that visual brand consistently is clutch. Being consistent with your brand message does so much more for you and your craft and your creative services than we could ever even record. We can’t even, like, record how great a great brand is. I mean, yeah … So, you have the white apple that started off as a rainbow apple, but it’s always been there. So, I feel like you’re advertising your stats, your newsletter, your conversion rates, all of that, it really can’t be … It’s great and that’s how we monetize everything, but you really can’t monetize how well your brand did for those things, you know?
Doug Gay: Right. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jenn Ocken: You know, so these marketing and advertising tools, they really work well when they’re supported with a very strong brand. And you’re right, not everybody can have the golden arches. Not everybody can have the apple, but they can have something. They have something and they’ve gotta find that something, right? And that’s what the branding is all about.
Doug Gay: Absolutely. Let me just chime in. I want anyone who’s concerned about their brand, at least the visual representation of their brand in terms of a logo or whatever, to know that I have restructured my logo three times in the last 12 years. We started with a B and in the long vertical stick of the B, it was red for a red stick, right? And then we had these, this like SONAR looking thing wrapping around it and to me, it was like you’re keeping the pulse of the town and things like that.
Jenn Ocken: Oh, that’s kind of –
Doug Gay: It was kind of neat.
Jenn Ocken: That’s fairly creative there, Doug. I gotta give it to you.
Doug Gay: Then we moved into more of little Baton Rouge music studios, the whole name and we had like rock and roll crosses in the B and everywhere there was a circle or something in middle of a letter, we’d have like a cross and it just had this certain thing. It was kind of cool. Then we moved to this ’50s logo, I say. It’s kind of like an old style, hand painted logo.
Jenn Ocken: Wow. So, how do you have any clients? They’re all over the board. Do they even know where to find you?
Doug Gay: Well, we kept the same address. We kept the same phone number.
Jenn Ocken: Okay, okay.
Doug Gay: But what I learned through that process and we will be, and this will be coming up as we go through this podcast, we’ll be –
Jenn Ocken: We will be talking about this.
Doug Gay: One more time. But I want people to know that if you’re not quite sure what that identifiable visual is for you, if you are a good business, if you’re doing the right things –
Jenn Ocken: Authentic.
Doug Gay: And you are authentic, people will come back no matter what your logo looks like.
Jenn Ocken: Okay, so you’re killing me here, Doug.
Doug Gay: No, no. That’s only to say –
Jenn Ocken: Pierced through my heart.
Doug Gay: That’s only to say that people who are unsure, don’t worry about it, but you do eventually have to commit to something.
Jenn Ocken: Absolutely. Your brand goes everything. It’s going to be noticeable and the consistency you can establish with your brand is going to convert sales. It’s going to convert people, fans, followers, collectors, way more efficiently.
Doug Gay: No, I agree.
Jenn Ocken: I’m so impressed with how successful you are because I know your company. We’ve been accountability partners for years now. I know your company and I guess I never realized how much you have done.
Doug Gay: You’re very surprised.
Jenn Ocken: I’m super surprised. Holy shit. So, like, I –
Doug Gay: That’s not to go against what you’re saying at all.
Jenn Ocken: No. No. And I think it’s interesting because it just tells you that as creatives that if something, if you’re doing that, if you’re having to completely rebrand or you’re flowing through and changing your mind, it’s not the end of the world.
Doug Gay: It’s not the end of the world. And I don’t plan, I didn’t plan on being in business for two years. I plan on being in business for the unforeseeable future, you know? So, the fact that you’re finding yourself, just as we do in life, as we go from childhood to puberty to puberty to adulthood, you’re finding yourself. So, there might be some changes along the way, but it shouldn’t stress you out because if you have a good product, then your brand is you. Your brand is what you do and how well you do it.
So, that being said, we are rebranding for the last time and we will be that in perpetuity.
Jenn Ocken: Yay!
Doug Gay: So, let’s get back to your point –
Jenn Ocken: Of consistency.
Doug Gay: Of consistency. But I will say that my consistency was my service.
Jenn Ocken: You’re right. You do have to have a common denominator.
Doug Gay: Yeah.
Jenn Ocken: You have to have a common denominator. You know the cool thing I love, I read this book called the E Myth and I love it and I think that everybody should read it.
Doug Gay: You should hear the audio book. This old man is the –
Jenn Ocken: I know. That’s how I did it.
Doug Gay: The author, right?
Jenn Ocken: That’s how I did.
Doug Gay: “It’s all about pies.” People will know, if they read the book. It’s great. I loved it. It’s like my grandfather was telling me the story.
Jenn Ocken: Well, the thing about it that really stood out for me, other than you only check your emails once per day, which I thought was clutch in whole time management thing, but is that anywhere you go in the world, you’re gonna get the same hamburger from McDonald’s.
Doug Gay: True.
Jenn Ocken: It’s probably the crappiest hamburger you might ever eat. Some people love it. That’s all to each his own, but it is the same hamburger across the world, the world.
Doug Gay: Right. Systems.
Jenn Ocken: Right. So you do, excuse me, you do have some validity there in that service orientated concept, right?
Doug Gay: Right.
Jenn Ocken: But you’re like, my heart is like in the pit of my stomach right now because this consistency will set you up for success.
Doug Gay: It is quite a scandal.
Jenn Ocken: It’s so conflict.
Doug Gay: I just threw that in. That’s what we get for me being sick whenever we’re suppose to be practicing.
Jenn Ocken: I know, yeah.
Doug Gay: Here I come with ideas.
Jenn Ocken: I know, right? Just throw me a left curve ball here.
Doug Gay: Now, let’s talk about consistency.
Jenn Ocken: Yeah, definitely. So you have this thing with your brand where you’re going to use it across the board, across tons of social media platforms, your newsletters, your website, you know? The signature at the bottom of your email, that’s going to tell people that they’re in this right space. That’s going to let people know that they are in a good space because they have familiar with you, whether they’ve seen you one time, three times, four times. The more times they see that brand, the more familiar, that’s a trust building thing, right?
Doug Gay: Absolutely.
Jenn Ocken: It gives that vibe of just, “I’ve seen it before.” Then you always are, if you’re giving out that message, kind of like we talked about in the episode before about defining your craft, they’re going to automatically have that definition in their brain because they associate it with your brand.
Doug Gay: Absolutely.
Jenn Ocken: So –
Doug Gay: Every time I see your name … I mean, your name is your brand.
Jenn Ocken: It is and it’s a signature. It’s a signature. That’s my signature, so every time I sign a fine art piece, my logo goes with it. It was kind of, I thought that was kind of genius about that.
Doug Gay: I love it. I love it. It’s awesome.
Jenn Ocken: So, there’s a few things to consider when you’re in the beginning stages of branding, you know? Or, in your case, rebranding and rebranding and rebranding. In the show notes, we’re going to give you a free download with those helpful tips. And Doug, I’m going to suggest that you go ahead and take a look at that.
Doug Gay: I will.
Jenn Ocken: Okay, good.
It’s a great way to check against even your current brand, so the … We’re going to help you understand these five points. There’s gonna be five points that are gonna, you have to think about when you are flowing into a brand.
So, Doug, you talked a little bit about rebranding, so let us have it.
Doug Gay: Yes, we are going to rebrand one more time. We’re going to become the Real School of Music. It is … There’s a company called the Real School of Music in Burlington, Massachusetts and we are, this is our final rebrand. I promise. So I guess we’re averaging every three years now, but this will be it. And, yeah, it was something … It’s something that makes sense to me.
Really quickly, when I was a band director, I taught at a program that was very small and very in its beginning stages and I built it to –
Jenn Ocken: I love that. I love –
Doug Gay: A large sustainable band program.
Jenn Ocken: He really did, y’all. He really did and he passed it on to somebody else who’s taking it another level.
Doug Gay: I’ve taken this ball as far as I can, I hired another guy who is an amazing person, Mr. John Gray, who took it and did some amazing things with it. I built the foundation and he just, he took it to the next level. And that’s what we’re doing here.
Jenn Ocken: And, you know, I give you a lot of crap about your multiple brands or your evolution of your brands, but the thing I’ve always seen about you, Doug, and that I really want these listeners to understand is that our foundation, the thing that we lay down, our mission statement, our vision statement, that all gave way to being able to build and evolve and be in a place where we can creatively move through our process.
Doug Gay: That’s right.
Jenn Ocken: And still maintain our quality.
Doug Gay: Yeah.
Jenn Ocken: Still maintain what we do and why we do it.
Doug Gay: Well, this company that I’m aligning with shares our vision, shares our mission. I’ve known them for many, many years. I trust them very very much. My goal is not just be here in Baton Rouge. I do have a location in Lake Charles, but our goal is to expand even further and after many conversations with the CEO of this other company, The Real School Of Music, trips there, they’ve come down here, we decided the best move for both of us is to align and continue to grow in a different capacity than I could do on my own.
Jenn Ocken: Right. And that is, like, what … How many years have you been, from your band director days to where you are right now, what’s that span?
Doug Gay: About eight years, nine years.
Jenn Ocken: That’s not a long time but you’re still … You’ve given yourself a space to expand and then to collaborate which is only going to grow, not only your mission but this new brand’s mission, too.
Doug Gay: That’s the thing. I love collaborating.
Jenn Ocken: Oh, that’s great. Why are we here?
Doug Gay: That’s right.
Jenn Ocken: You know, Doug, I too rebranded about 10 years ago when I moved down south and it was a really tough decision for me to do that because of my consistency, right? My value with that consistency. I learned that coming out of college and it’s one of the best, it’s one of my most valuable tools that I hold true to, you know? And leaving that umbrella of this old brand which was under my family …
So, my story is that out of five siblings, three of us are professional photographers and I am the baby of the family and my brothers had established a brand and gave, and allowed me to come in and be apart of that in the photography realm. And it was a tough, tough decision because I was leaving this brand that was something really close to me. I love my brothers. I love everything they gave to me. They were my mentors. They taught everything I knew about photography and they really pushed me to be my own style and … So blessed, right?
Doug Gay: Yeah.
Jenn Ocken: I didn’t even go to school for photography but I had these two people I know. That was a tough decision for me, but I started feeling this conflict because their brand wasn’t reflecting my message and my style and who I was as a photographer. And the whole idea that I wasn’t being true to myself is the whole reason why I was branding or I needed to rebrand.
Doug Gay: Yeah, exactly. That makes sense.
Jenn Ocken: I know, right? So, we’ve talked about rebranding. We’ve talked about the consistency of brand and I’m really, really excited to bring on our guest.
Doug Gay: What? We have a guest?
Jenn Ocken: We do. We do. Tell them about it, Doug.
Doug Gay: I don’t know. Who is he? What’s his name?
Jenn Ocken: You are … He’s making fun of me because I’m a little nervous about saying his last name.
Doug Gay: Jolibois.
Jenn Ocken: Jolibois.
We have invited Jacob Jolibois, Director of Digital Strategy at the creative firm, Mesh, here in town, in Baton Rouge. That’s kind of where our hub is, for anybody who doesn’t know out there and he is also the host of Alt-BR podcast and co-founder of Parachute.FM, a new podcast network, who, by the way, excited and grateful to say host, or produces, the ThrivTalk podcast, our podcast.
Doug Gay: Mister producer.
Jenn Ocken: And he just gave his first TedTalk, Doug. Did you see it?
Doug Gay: No. I was jealous. I didn’t watch.
Jenn Ocken: I couldn’t go either.
Doug Gay: I was jealous. I was like, “No. I ain’t watching that.” Just kidding.
Jenn Ocken: So we want to welcome Jacob to come on. So glad to have you here.
Real quick, before we get started, I’m sorry … I’m not gonna let you talk. I gotta ask. Did you know how challenging it was going to be to keep Doug and I in line when you’re on these microphones?
Jacob Jolibois: Hello everyone. And great question, Jenn. I think I knew it was going to be a challenge, but I didn’t know to what extent.
Jenn Ocken: Well played, friend.
Jacob Jolibois: But let’s be honest, y’all are just a joy to be around.
Jenn Ocken: Thank you.
Jacob Jolibois: Y’all energize me.
Doug Gay: Somewhere between a joy and annoying.
Jacob Jolibois: It’s a healthy balance.
Jenn Ocken: I’m going to totally point it out here. Beating to our own drug, Doug the drummer.
So, I asked Jacob to be here today because, yes, he knows a thing or two about branding, especially when it comes to using a brand and strategically going after something and that’s really exciting to me, Jacob, because you’re a creative and you’re using your passion for you community to help others, like Doug and I, to have a platform to share our message, ideas and experience with our people, our community. And I want to know what is going on in your head, in your creative brain that you and your co-founder, Abe Felix … Love me some Abe.
Jacob Jolibois: Shout out to Abe.
Jenn Ocken: Yes, he’s usually running our sound. He does all of our editing. Right now, we have Jordan with us today.
Jacob Jolibois: Shout out to Jordan.
Jenn Ocken: Shout out to Jordan. Super creative himself.
So, Jacob, when you … Knowing what you know in, kind of, the corporate realm of working in the digital strategy and now you starting Parachute.FM and this beautiful platform that you’re giving people a voice, how did you approach your brand? Because you know what could be out there, but you’re a creative just trying to make it.
Jacob Jolibois: Sure. There’s a lot of stories I could tell right now about this whole journey, but it’s been a constant evolution for me as well. So, Doug, I’ve been in your shoes. I understand. And the cool part that you touched on, that I resonated with was, you said, the consistency was my service. And that’s always been something that’s influx for me. Who am I? What am I providing? What is Jacob Jolibois bringing to the table at any given point in the day? And I started off as a photographer, like Jenn. Shot corporate photography for eight years before I went corporate, I guess, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. I love my job.
Jenn Ocken: Oh, no. You guys need to go and check out Mesh stuff, man, because that is Jacob behind, him and his team. It’s a beautiful thing.
Jacob Jolibois: I’ve learned so much in that space because in the realm of branding, from a marketing and advertising standpoint, brand isn’t just the visual brand. It’s not just the logo, the fonts, the colors. It’s also the company culture, the leadership. The way that they interact with their customers or their clientele. What we do is we bring a new client in, who wants to get a new logo and we have a three hour discovery session with them. And inevitability, they always come in asking, “Why am I sitting here for three hours out of my work for you to design a logo?” At the end of this –
Doug Gay: They’re not creatives.
Jacob Jolibois: At the end of everything, they get it but it takes them a while to get there because what they’re not seeing behind the scenes is we are synthesizing three hours worth of their answers to our rigorous questioning of, “What is it y’all do? Who is that y’all want to be? Who are your competitors? What makes you different? What does the marketplace want? What does the supply and demand look like? What is the verbiage that you use surrounding the things that you offer?” All of these ideas are being synthesized and sometimes what comes out the other end is an evolved of what they told us.
So, if they say, “We do X.” And it takes them three paragraphs to say, we know that’s not going to move product. We know that it’s going to take a sentence to move product because you have to be able to clearly articulate what it is you do and that is part of your brand, too. Not just your logo. You also have verbiage surrounding your brand, so we actually have this 20 some odd page slide deck that we build out for every single brand that we do. It has, not only your typical logo usage, colors, fonts, but it also has everything around what are the values we live by and work by, what is it we uphold, what is our brand statement, which is a … There’s kind of a formula to this, so it’s We Are X. You can fill that in with a tech company, a start up, a whatever.
Jenn Ocken: Podcast network.
Jacob Jolibois: A podcast network, exactly. It’s some sort of noun. We are X and we provide blank. This is your value offering to blank –
Jenn Ocken: Focus.
Jacob Jolibois: And these are your audiences.
So, if I’m talking about Parachute.FM, we are a podcast network and we provide the platform for people who are progressing the social good, that’s our audience, in order that … And then you always wrap it up with some sort of result. Why is the world a better place because of what we offer? So, in order to give voice to the people who don’t have a voice.
Or, if you’re a construction … Let’s say you’re Home Depot. In order to let you remodel your own home, without having to hire somebody else to do it for you.
Doug Gay: Right.
Jacob Jolibois: There’s always a better version of the world that you’re creating. And if you can’t sell that idea, you’re not gonna be able to sell a hammer.
So, when we talk about the idea of brand, anybody can learn Photoshop or Illustrator well enough to go in, put some type on a page, make it look stylized in some sort and pass it off as a logo. But they don’t see the leg work that goes into developing the brand before we even touch the Adobe suite, before we even touch Photoshop or Illustrator.
So, Doug, I hear your journey and I empathize with that a lot because you are going through that evolution of answering the questions. Who am I? What do I do? What do I offer? Who am I offering it to? And why is the world going to be a better place because of what I offer? And as you’ve evolved, your visual brand has evolved with you, as it should. That’s why we’ve got companies that are 80 years old coming to us. Right now, we’re working with, we just rebranded Don’s Seafood and –
Jenn Ocken: Love that brand, by the way.
Jacob Jolibois: Don’s Seafood is a stable of the Baton Rouge community, but they haven’t a brand refresh in ages, if ever. I’m not really sure when the last time they rebranded was. But we started from scratch, from the base level.
Jenn Ocken: I think I just saw that on social media, Facebook.
Jacob Jolibois: Yeah, yeah. They’ve actually been getting a lot of press for some recent stuff we did for them, which is really cool.
But, with Don’s, they had a heritage there. They had 60 to 80 years of being in the community.
Doug Gay: That was a Friday night in Lake Charles for my family.
Jacob Jolibois: Yeah, exactly. So you can’t discount that, but they also have become something more evolved than what they started out as, so we had to take that into account, too.
So, brand is such a unique topic to discuss because there’s so many facets, but in the end, it’s about who you are as a holistic entity, not just your logo.
Jenn Ocken: Amen to that.
Doug Gay: I love that.
Jenn Ocken: And I love what you said about evolving. I mean, each one of us, in our own little, what we just talked about, you know, with me having to rebrand into my own identity, you going through your 27 layers of branding –
Doug Gay: No, but as Jacob’s saying, as I’m changing the colors of my flag, my troops are all still in line. They’re all doing the exact same thing, same mission.
Jenn Ocken: You’re going to get crap for this for a long time from now, Doug.
Doug Gay: I’m so sorry. I should’ve let Jacob talk first. He probably would’ve got all the heat.
Jacob Jolibois: Yes, indeed.
Jenn Ocken: And then Jacob giving this wonderful, kind of, corporate insight on brand strategy, it was great. There’s so many way, there’s no right or wrong way –
Jacob Jolibois: Can I jump in here?
Jenn Ocken: Absolutely.
Jacob Jolibois: Because, as you mentioned in my intro, I also am just a creative with a personal brand.
Jenn Ocken: Right.
Jacob Jolibois: So, there’s the whole Mesh side of things, the corporate side, but I also do a lot personally that my brand is made up of being a host of AltBR, a co-founder of Parachute, a director of digital at Mesh, a speaker, a writer, an author, all of these different facets –
Jenn Ocken: Photographer.
Jacob Jolibois: Photographer, yep. A designer. They all make up a piece of who I am.
Doug Gay: Jolibois.
Jacob Jolibois: Actually … Dang, I need to rebrand.
Jenn Ocken: No, you totally need to have –
Doug Gay: I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt. Go ahead.
Jacob Jolibois: Actually, on that point, Doug, my URL is J-O-L-I-B-O dot I-S. It’s the Icelandic, it’s not dot com. It’s dot I-S.
So, Jolibois is my URL.
Doug Gay: Oh, wow.
Jacob Jolibois: So, I do embrace that.
Jenn Ocken: Well played. Well played.
Doug Gay: That’s so cool.
Jacob Jolibois: My “Why?”, so to speak, my brand statement is to make the world a more beautiful experience. And this takes into account my writing, because I’m making the world a more beautiful experience through education. It takes into account speaking, podcasting, the actual design work that I do, the user experience design work that I do, all of these different facets are creating a world that is better than it was before through the framework of design, which, by the way, happens to be the topic of my TedTalk.
So, what I did, weirdly enough, for my visual brand, was I focused on a very clean, very unbranded style because my brand is made up of so many other sub-brands, so I didn’t want it to detract from AltBR or detract from Parachute or Mesh. So, my brand is a simple sans serif white font.
Jenn Ocken: Minimalistic. You’re very minimalistic.
Jacob Jolibois: I’m also a minimalist, yep.
Jenn Ocken: And I actually talk about that exact element, that kind of concept. There are several different ways to approach a brand that generic white, like, generic … That’s the only way to really say it.
Jacob Jolibois: Let’s just say clean.
Jenn Ocken: Clean.
Jacob Jolibois: I’m not generic.
Jenn Ocken: No, you’re not. That’s what I was trying to … I was totally fumbling over there. Could you hear?
Doug Gay: Jolibois.
Jenn Ocken: I know, right? Jolibois.
Jacob Jolibois: No, it is generic, but that’s okay.
Jenn Ocken: Which I just learned how to say tonight, y’all.
Jacob Jolibois: She’s nailing it.
Jenn Ocken: I am. I feel super sexy doing it, too, y’all. But nonetheless, nonetheless, that is a thing. To go into that space where you’re not clouding people with everything you do and you’re just saying, “Here I am. What am I doing? This is what I’m doing. What do you need?” You really put yourself in a position to listen to the needs of your buyer, your consumer, your collector.
Jacob Jolibois: Yep.
Jenn Ocken: Whoever that person is. And I gotta honestly tell you, in doing my research and … Fortunately, I didn’t have to go out and look for a lot of podcast people to produce. You guys kind of showed up for me and it was an instant fit, but it was a really nice comfortable fit. Keep doing what you’re doing, dude. It works.
Jacob Jolibois: Thank you.
Doug Gay: You know I remember being like 11 or 12 and going to Lafayette and going, “Oh, there’s a Don’s Seafood here, too.” Like, yeah, that’s the original one.
Jacob Jolibois: Yep.
Doug Gay: And you go to Baton Rouge. “Oh, there’s a Don’s Seafood here too.” I didn’t have the concept, lik, anything other than McDonald’s and Sears could be, like, –
Jacob Jolibois: A chain or something? That’s awesome.
Doug Gay: I thought my Don’s Seafood was the only Don’s Seafood.
Jenn Ocken: The only one.
Jacob Jolibois: The OG Don’s Seafood.
Doug Gay: Jacob, we want to make sure that everybody checks out all the things Jacob –
Jenn Ocken: Yeah, all of them.
Doug Gay: So, we’re going to link you guys to his stuff in our show notes. This one is … This guy is one creative you’re going to want to follow.
Jenn Ocken: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jacob Jolibois: I appreciate that.
Jenn Ocken: And thank you for being here, Jacob. I really appreciate it.
Jacob Jolibois: I love it. This is my natural habitat, so …
Jenn Ocken: Right? Exactly. And you know the fact of the matter is you, kind of, flow between both realms. You have that insight on both. It’s so valuable.
Jacob Jolibois: And also, the reason I resonate so much with the ThrivTalk and the Thriv Community is because I also flow between the business world and the creative world. Yesterday, well, two days ago, I spent the entire day building a proforma for a new business concept and I was just in Excel spreadsheet all day, doing budgeting and cost of goods sold and that whole world of –
Doug Gay: Do you like that?
Jacob Jolibois: Yeah, I get a high from putting together the business plan.
Jenn Ocken: It’s creative.
Doug Gay: I love it.
Jenn Ocken: It is creative because you’re like trying to figure out how to be efficient.
Doug Gay: Out of the art and into the technical, I really enjoy running a business.
Jacob Jolibois: Right.
Doug Gay: As much as I used to love play the drums. I still love playing the drums, but the business is my new drums.
Jacob Jolibois: It’s like there’s a subtle art to it.
Jenn Ocken: See, creatives, you can do it too.
Jacob Jolibois: Get excited about the business side of things because there’s so much creativity that goes into what kind of systems are you putting in place? How creative are you getting with your pricing structure? Or the way that you market yourself through proper verbiage? What language are you using to sell your products and services?
So, there’s really some neat things you can dive into. Beware, there’s a black hole in Google in the business world and you will fall down it quickly. But, if you can find your footing and listen to what Jenn’s saying, you’re going to do very well, very quickly.
Jenn Ocken: That’s why I bring on the really cool people.
Doug Gay: Speaking of what Jenn is saying, I think Miss Jenn Ocken, it’s your time for the call to action.
Jenn Ocken: Call to action, y’all. A lot of times podcast episodes or podcast people out there, they don’t really say it’s a call to action and I want to significantly bring attention to the fact that we do a call to action at the end of each episode.
Doug Gay: It’s too late. I do it all the time.
Jenn Ocken: I know. I’m okay with that. That’s what I’m saying.
Doug Gay: Okay. Good. You never told me to stop, so …
Jenn Ocken: No, because it’s so important to have a call to action and it’s … Yeah, you can do it discreetly, but we need, as consumers, they need to know where they can get more. Because they’re intrigued with us and I hope you guys are, too.
I know as a consumer, myself, I want to know where I can get more. Especially people like Jacob that I really love and want to attach –
Doug Gay: Especially hearing Jacob say inspiring things and you’re like in the moment, but then you’re like, “Where the instruction manual?”
Jenn Ocken: Right. So, that’s why we do a call to action after every single thing. And I want to bring attention to it because I want you guys as creatives to know that it’s okay. You don’t have to be as forward as us, but, hey, whatever. We do what we do and that’s why we do it, right?
Doug Gay: That’s right.
Jenn Ocken: So, getting back to my call to action, we’ve started this conversation about branding and this is only just the start, y’all. This is just the tip of the iceberg about branding. Branding is so essential to what you’ve got going on and we’ll talk more in later podcast about how you already have a brand, you just need to figure out what it is, but I want to invite you to our free Facebook community we call The Thrivsters, to continue this conversation and there’s many more topics on there about pursuing a creative career, but especially in this branding. We dedicate Wednesdays to branding in that Thrivster group, so show up there. We’ll put the link the show note, of course, and just continue this conversation. Ask your questions. Start some sort of inquisitive conversation that you just really want to intrigue in. I’m almost positive Jacob’s in that group. Doug’s in that group. I’m, obviously, in that group because I created it. Don’t forget about the free download explaining the five key points that you’ll need to consider before you start building your brand and that’ll also be in the show notes.
So, thank you guys so much for showing up. This one went a little bit longer than I think we expected, but damn, we got some great stuff.
Doug Gay: Absolutely. Good, good stuff. I’ve learned something tonight.
Jenn Ocken: Absolutely. Me and you both.
Doug Gay: Today. Whatever time of day it is.
Jenn Ocken: Yeah, when are you listening to it? Just insert time of day there.
Doug Gay: Right. Well, Jenn, I love you.
Jenn Ocken: I love you, too, Doug.
Doug Gay: You know what?
Jacob Jolibois: I love you both.
Doug Gay: Oh, my god. I was gonna say I love you.
Jenn Ocken: Jacob loves us.
Doug Gay: Jacob Jolibois.
Jenn Ocken: Jolibois.
Doug Gay: All right, guys. See you next time.
Jenn Ocken: All right. Peace.